Living Without Regrets: Jodi Wellman on Making Your Time Count
Imagine waking up and realizing that today could be your last. Not a Debbie Downer, this enjoyable episode brings you ideas sparking so you’re living a life true to you. Are you living intentionally? Do you do things that light you up and bring you joy? Find out how right now!
The Power of Simple, Joyful Activities: From making a list of simple activities that bring joy to spending intentional time with loved ones, get practical tips for living more fully.
Intentional Living and Personal Growth: Discover why focusing on one area of life that needs improvement leads to significant changes and a more fulfilling existence.
Embrace Boldness and Overcome Fear: Author and inspirational leader Jody Wellman shares how the greater regret often lies in not trying at all, rather than fearing mistakes, urging you to take courageous steps toward your dreams.
In this episode, Lauren Abrams has a heart-to-heart with Jodi Wellman, author and inspirational leader with a deep well of wisdom about living intentionally and savoring every moment. Jodi shares how the concept of memento mori—remembering that we must die—has fueled her passion for purposeful living. She opens up about her own struggles, including overcoming an eating disorder, and reflects on how her mother’s unfulfilled dreams influenced her own path.
Join us for a conversation that will inspire you to live more fully and authentically. Tune in and discover how to embrace each day with purpose and joy.
"My biggest impetus would have been my mom dying in her late 50s. She had a bunch of regrets about things she didn't do, and that was such a wake-up call for me." – Jodi, (3:44).
“We are all just fabulous ticking time bombs, and I would hate the idea that any of us gets to the end and says, ‘I really wanted to do this thing, and I didn't’ ” – Jodi, (21:41).
You will learn the transformative power of facing your fears and embracing the courage to pursue your dreams. In this episode, Lauren and Jodi explore how to tackle the fear of future regrets and find joy in the everyday. They share actionable tips on savoring simple pleasures, surrounding yourself with supportive people, and living with purpose.
"I want to be proud of myself that I gave it a go. I want to look back and demonstrate to myself that I care enough about this precious life I've been granted." – Jodi, (10:51).
You will learn how to take bold, intentional steps toward your aspirations. Jodi inspires us to be mindful of our time and make sure it aligns with our deepest values and dreams. In this episode, you will also discover how to focus on what truly matters and create a life filled with purpose and passion.
“I want every person listening right now to stop and think because there's a thing you want to do. If it matters, you have feelings about it. If it matters, it's usually a cocktail of excitement and energy but also some kind of fear.'” – Jodi, (32:00).
Hear Jodi share invaluable insights on how to make the most of those precious moments of unexpected free time. Instead of passively waiting for life to slow down, Jodi encourages you to prioritize activities that bring joy and fulfillment proactively. She suggests having a ready list of joyful pursuits so that whenever a free moment arises, you're prepared to dive into experiences that nourish your soul and add meaning to your life. Don't wait for the perfect time; create it with purpose and intention.
“There's a reason we're on autopilot, and there's a reason we take life for granted. If we're willing to face facts, which is darn it all, we're temporary. That sucks, and let's use that to our advantage– Jodi, (32:51).
Tune in for an enriching conversation and start your journey to a more intentional and joyful life! Let's dive in!
In this episode:
(01:37) - The concept of "memento mori"
(03:44) - Recognizing regrets and taking action
(04:32) - Overcoming fear and taking the first step
(11:31) - Living with intention and making conscious choices
(14:05) - Activating joy and finding delight in simple things
(15:54) - Making the most of unexpected time
(18:15) - Identifying areas for vitality and meaning
(30:33) - Overcoming fear and living boldly
(32:00) - Courage to pursue what you really want to do
(32:51) - Facing those facts about yourself
(33:53) - Quizzes and thought-provoking questions.
Resources and Links
Weeks of Hope
About Jodi Wellman
Jodi Wellman, author of "You Only Die Once: How to Make It to the End with No Regrets," is a former corporate executive turned influential keynote speaker and executive coach. With over 25 years of leadership experience, she empowers individuals to live with purpose and joy. As a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) and Certified Professional Co-Active Coach (CPCC), Jodi brings extensive expertise to her work, helping clients—from C-suite executives to everyday people—thrive in work and life.
Jodi WellmanSocial Media
If you want to start your Podcast
Podify - Website
If you are feeling like you're living a life without intention and weighed down by regrets, Lauren and Jodi are here to help you:
Understand life's finite nature
Learn how to turn your fears into fuel
Learn the practical steps to an Intentional Life
Identify and prioritize potential regrets in life
Set intentional goals and make the most of unexpected free time
Discover the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive and encouraging individuals
Key Takeaways
"Life is scarce, and unfortunately, we need those reminders that it is finite. Recognizing its temporal nature motivates us to treat it with urgency and intention." -Jodi, (02:22).
"To live like we mean it requires courage and boldness. It's about recognizing our fears and choosing to act despite them."– Jodi, (13:55)
Mentioned
Book: You Only Die Once by Jodi Wellman
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Lauren Abrams [00:00:00] Are you a burnt-out overachiever buried in responsibilities? Do you miss laughing with your friends just laughing from the gut? Do you feel like life's passing you by? If you've been wishing for some kind of shift, you're in the right place. Welcome to 52 Weeks of Hope, the show where we take you off the hamster wheel by ditching your to-do list for the to-don't list. This is where you get to learn how to make that lonely ache vanish. Learn self-compassion techniques and give yourself grace. I'm Lauren Abrams and I get to help you feel that magic again. Since going through my own dark night of the soul, so you can learn from my experience and the mentors and experts I meet along the way. And today we're talking to author, inspirational leader, and your advocate for your new life, Jodi Wellman. Do you ever feel like your life's on autopilot? Like you're, you know, there's more. You're not doing what you're called here to do. Are you ready to find out your purpose and feel happy again? You're in for a treat as you get to learn how to put vitality and meaning back into your moments and look forward to your day again. Listen as Jodi guides you to tap into your intuition and helps you live in your truth and your joy. Author of You Only Die Once. How to make it to the end with no regrets. Welcome to 52 Weeks of Hope, Jodi.
Jodi Wellman [00:01:14] Thank you. Lauren, I'm excited to be here to chat with you.
Lauren Abrams [00:01:17] Yeah, I am too. Well, your TEDx talk is amazing. You have a whole thing about counting down how many Mondays are left, and people are like, oh, that's morbid, and it's not. It's how to live your life with meaning. But how did you get to where you're counting how many Mondays are left in your life, which is so original?
Jodi Wellman [00:01:37] Yeah. And I like how you pointed out that definitely some people think, wait, what? That does not sound like something. I mean, like, should I click off this podcast and no, don't yet, because we promise it won't be morbid. It will be motivating. I was studying this topic of memento mori is the Latin phrase that means remember, we must die. In my pursuit of a master's degree in applied positive psychology, I made my thesis about this idea of how we make the most of life, but using the unfortunate reality that life is short as a motivator. And it may seem counterintuitive, right? Because we may think, well, hey, if we're studying positive psychology, it's like the study of abundance. It's the good stuff. And yeah, but unfortunately we need those reminders that life is scarce. And research is so clear that when we do recognize the temporal nature, the fact that it is finite does help motivate us to take it with more. You know, we take it seriously. We treat it with urgency and more of a sense of intention. So that's kind of what got me officially into it I've always been interested in the topic. And I had some stuff going on in my life, which I'm happy to elaborate on, but it was really the study of it that made me go, oh, I'm going to make this my life now. Like I'm going to make this my profession, not just my interest.
Lauren Abrams [00:02:52] Yeah, you talked about you had an eating disorder. So was it hitting bottom that gave you or was it other things?
Jodi Wellman [00:03:01] Yeah. You know what's funny is the bottom is that could have been for ten years. That wasn't even a bottom. I mean, it was just a crappy, long, dark tunnel that was part of it. And that for me, is actually more of a metaphor of life. You talk about going through the motions. I love the feeling of that phrase because I hate it. You know, that feeling of a no, we don't want to go through the motions. We didn't want to find ourselves ten years into a bad habit or a detrimental way of living that we're just really hiding from life. So that was a big part of it. But my biggest impetus would have been my mom dying in her late 50s. So she died. And it was sad. But the biggest thing that hit me was that she had a bunch of regrets about things she didn't do. You know, like all the books she wrote and all the business ideas, she had no plans that she just didn't have the confidence to activate. And that was such a wake-up call for me when I was helping clean up her place after she died of, I think I could go down this road like I could recognize myself. I mean, obviously, I'm cut from the same cloth, you know, as dies her daughter. Like, I have all these hopes and dreams. And I also know that I am a little bit chickenshit sometimes. And that, for me, was like, wait a minute, life short. Let's get on with it.
Lauren Abrams [00:04:17] Yeah. So how did you shift to actually do it? Because taking action is not easy. I always say God doesn't drive parked cars. You can't sit in a corner and wish for things. You have to take action. But it's not easy to take the action. You'd be like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to start. Or you go, oh, well, I'll do 15 minutes a day of this, but it's a watch. And how do you start and what do I do?
Jodi Wellman [00:04:39] And yeah, it's such a good question because that's the real difference between like languishing for a decade, say, and wanting something and like I'll share I had that as well in my career. At one point, you know, I was feeling trapped and stuck in kind of the role I was in. It was just comfortable enough to stay, but I didn't know how to get out. And so talk about the part. Car. It was like I was hoping for the best, that somehow something would happen to me. Like, I guess I was hoping to be headhunted. I don't want to do the scary work of figuring out what to do. I just want to be plucked.
Lauren Abrams [00:05:10] Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Just comfortable enough.
Jodi Wellman [00:05:15] Right? That does not sound like a life worth living is like just getting by. So. So back to your question. What to do about it? For me, so much of this comes down to the idea of being courageous and bold because for most of us. To live like we mean. It requires some kind of effort or initiative. That's to either. Maybe it is to make a move from a job or from a relationship, or to say, wait a second, this is a dream I've had for a while. It could be a goal, like writing a book and recognizing what? Why am I putting it off? It's usually because we're afraid of something. We're afraid of rejection or failure and recognizing and saying, what would I rather do? You know what? I rather get to my deathbed and everything with me leads to the deathbed. You know, if I count my days, I'm very interested in the endpoint. Like, if I get to the end, am I going to regret it? Going for it and maybe having it not take off? Or would I regret not doing it? So for most people, research is so clear. We regret the things we didn't do so much more than maybe a mistake we made or a business plan that didn't take off or oh, you know, you asked that person out and they said no. Like, at least we tried. So I think, you know, in terms of the literal first step, it's just going to sound kind of silly. But back to the deathbed. Like we have to identify the things that we want to do that we're not doing yet. And many of us were so busy and were floating around, flitting around. We haven't even stopped to say, wait, what would be on my list of stuff that I would regret? I can I ask you, even Lauren, if this was the end for you? You've had a good life, but is there something that could be small? It could be so big that you'd think, wow, I wished that I had done that. Maybe it's a travel, a hobby, a trying or something, anything that would be like I wished I had done that.
Lauren Abrams [00:07:03] No, I was going to do a Ted talk, and I kept doing it. And I was like, this is not even on my bucket list. Why am I doing all this work to do it? And I stopped. Great lesson. I was like, this is not this is like somebody else's day. Yeah. Like, if I want to do it, I'll go back and start trying. But I don't think so. But, 52 weeks, I hope started as a book. I just tell somebody yesterday. I have the outline, so I need to go back and do that first.
Jodi Wellman [00:07:33] So everybody listening is cheering. This is so great. And like I presume that if you didn't turn it into a book, you'd feel that flipping of regret like, oh, I always wanted to do that and I didn't.
Lauren Abrams [00:07:43] So I have the outline. I was just telling my friend yesterday about the steps I was taking to write. So I need an accountability partner. But we went on lockdown and that's how the podcast started. But I believe strongly in accountability partners to help get it done.
Jodi Wellman [00:07:56] Unfortunately, we need some accountability to live the lives we've imagined. To quote Henry David Thoreau, author of, You know, Life, the first step is identifying, you know, what you might regret if you were on your deathbed, and it could be something as frivolous as I always wanted to go to Milan, you know, or I always wanted to.
Lauren Abrams [00:08:15] But let's go back to how you make the shift here. You were hoping to be plucked out. How did you take that shift? What was the nudge did you get? Because I'm an employment lawyer, and I know a lot of times the universe will give you a little nudge if you like and kind of be like, oh, it's your time. You know, like you'll get terminated or something like that, and then you get to do what it is you always wanted to do.
Jodi Wellman [00:08:40] You really? I worked with a career coach, so I finally said, like, I'm just sort of toiling, spinning around. So I figured out what would be examples of things that I might like to do. And then I had to initiate informational interviews. And at the time for me, I got into my shifted into, leadership development and executive coaching. And that meant that I had to take a new program for a year to get certified. And that was fine. That was great. I mean, I love that, and, rebuilding, like building my own business. So getting up the gumption to say I'm going out on my own to do this. And so I think sometimes you have to take the risk. Like, here's the thing. If I had done the thing where I said, I'm going to part-time evenings and weekends, stick it in in the day, do a little bit of at the time it was coaching or workshops. There also would have been just enough comfort to not really make a move, but for me, I had to do a cold turkey like I had to say, I am done, I am transitioning and I needed the discomfort of I need to now replace my income, or I need to feel like I am really contributing or I need to make a difference. Like I need to feel like I'm okay. So I needed it to be a little bit of a grand gesture. I don't think that everybody needs or wants that, but it was working with someone to help me see, this is really the thing that I think is going to give me a shot at joy. And I'm going to go for it. And being brave enough to say, well, I'm going to jump into the deep end of the pool, not put my toe in the shallow end.
Lauren Abrams [00:10:05] Which is great. And how did you surround yourself with people who were like, yeah, you can do this because it's the naysayers that it's like, no, no, no, stay away from them.
Jodi Wellman [00:10:14] And yeah, I didn't have a lot of naysayers. I don't hang around with them. So I don't have a life. So I'm.
Lauren Abrams [00:10:20] Good.
Jodi Wellman [00:10:21] Yeah. They've already been made I don't know. But I would say, yeah. I mean my husband's been a delight and I would say, impatient and, you know. Yeah, that was a big difference. I think really, the main impetus for me kept coming back to thinking about my mom, like. Not out of a fear that it kept me up at night or an angsty fear. But because there's a difference right between that and a little bit of like an existentially rooted fear, which is where I want it. This is the science I work in, and it's appropriate fear. It's like. I do not want my time cut short. That would suck. But it was more than that, right? It was like, I need to show myself. I don't want to be proud of myself, that I gave it a go. And I want to look back and I don't have kids. So this, for me, is not a legacy project of like, teaching any kid around me how to live. It was more about demonstrating to myself that I care enough about myself and this precious life I've been granted in order to say I don't want to languish anymore. I don't want to settle. Settling and tolerating or two of the most disgusting words, you know? And I was doing a lot of it.
Lauren Abrams [00:11:31] Right? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So you used a word earlier on intention and being intentional. How important is that with this work?
Jodi Wellman [00:11:41] It's so crucial. I'm glad you picked up on it. This is more cookie, right? We get busy doing things. Like, a lot of the time we can be super busy, but we're super bored at the same time, right? Like, we're toiling and, like, we're moving around doing all the tasks, or we've filled our days with stuff or even our evenings, dare I say, like our quote-unquote discretionary time when we're not working, if our work is not necessarily our own choice. It's not stuff that fills the proverbial cup up. [5.8s] It's like it's just stuff. And that's not living with intention. That's back to the zombie zone. That's it's living in autopilot, which is one of the greatest sorts of fears that I would love for us all to appropriately hold on to, like, wait a minute. I do not want autopilot, which means I am going with the flow and I'm not stopping and saying, wait a minute, what would make my evening actually feel more alive tonight? Because all we're doing is living, like, literally one night at a time, one day at a time, when morning at a time, I even boil it down to 20-minute increments, because that's just the way life gets lived. You know, it's like the decision of like, what are you going to do, for lunch today? You know, are you going to do what I do, which is answer emails the whole entire time you're scarfing back food? Or are you going to stop and say, I actually think I might like my day more, and then therefore my life more? If I paused for 20 minutes. Okay. Even ten. I'm going to give you an example. The woman I know made a conscious choice to use a child in preschool, and she did the math because she's reading my book right now. And so she's very interested in this, like counting things down. She's like, my son is last year in preschool, and I know how many weeks he has left in preschool. And so she made it a plan that everyone one day a week. So for her, it's Friday. She's going to take her son out to lunch and she goes in, it's so easy. And he loves the subway. So she's going to go to the subway with her son. She goes, it's 15 minutes to sit there. And I'm going to say what you learned today. We're going to have our little time and he's going to have his little sub. And I'm like, wait, does a kid eat a set like a foot long and it doesn't matter? And she's going to bring it back, you know. And then that is going to be an example that she's like, it's not about money at all. It's not a lot of time. We're just making a decision to be intentional about spending time. In this case, it's with her kiddo and with herself. For many of us, it's just our own time with ourselves. We're not being intentional, and we're missing the chance to live like we mean it. Like at the end of a day or an end of a week or a month, we could say, wow, I showed up, you know, rather than I just floated by.
Lauren Abrams [00:14:03] And I love that it's I talk often about taking a walk or even just around the block. Take a break without a device. Yeah, just the trees, the flowers, all of it. The purple everywhere. I mean, it's like incredible. Is it easy to not take your device? I'm not going to act like it is, because maybe you want to listen to a podcast. You want to listen to something, but to not take anything and just breathe and notice your breath and your steps and everything around you is an amazing experience.
Jodi Wellman [00:14:35] It is. So you're highlighting like, this is a good example for you, that you know how to activate something that makes you feel tuned in and alive. And my recommendation for each and every one of us is to always write, to make a list of 30 things that are just like that kind of sweet and simple. And I, you know, in workshops, sometimes I'll ask people to do and they start writing out things like because it could be like, what makes you happy? And it's like always when I'm in the mountain skiing and I'm like, yeah, but that's not really something you can just activate on a Thursday when you're at home, you know what I mean? You're allowed to have a separate list. Those are important to like big, grander things. Don't not do those. One other woman said, I just love to sit outside for a quick minute, and I put my feet in the pool, and I walk on the grass with my bare feet. And then I come back in and another woman in a workshop. There are just fresh workshops. It's my mind. She's like, yeah, I hate it outside, but I love it inside. Trying a new, totally different kind of book. So all she reads are business books because she's just like this businesswoman. And I did this for years. All my books, I table, my books, I table, bedside table. It was a book side table. It's full of all of the business books and I love them. But it was like, what about a fiction book? Or what about a murder mystery or a biography? And so she's like, I am reading one chapter a day that is delighting me because it has nothing to do with productivity, you know? And I heard her joy, like, make your list so that not just when you find time. Because let's be honest, like time isn't going to open up for you every now and then you get the gift of a cancelled meeting or something, and you're like, this is an hour of my life. I'm going to encourage you to make that the most precious time in your day. If it's a gift of unexpected time, you're going to need to be the one to block it off and say what will be cool to do before dinner? Do I want to read too? Will it be a bath? What would it be like? Do I want to stretch? Do I want to call my long-lost college roommate? Like, what would be something that you would find to be great to do and like? Those are the ways to intersperse an intentional life. That's one of the easiest, smallest things we can do.
Lauren Abrams [00:16:31] I love that tip. 30 sounds like a lot. Do people have trouble coming up with 30?
Jodi Wellman [00:16:36] Yeah, initially they do. But then here's what happens. Flood gates open. And this is the cool thing I find in a workshop setting because someone says, oh, I love opening up all my old phone photos, photo books or scrapbooks. And then someone goes, oh, I love that too. And then they write that on their list. Yeah yeah.
Lauren Abrams [00:16:50] Yeah okay. Yeah yeah yeah, that's good I love that these are good tips because everybody listening cannot do as much as it takes a workshop. They can all read your book which is full of these kinds of tips by the way. They're it's such a fun read and easy and uplifting and funny and it's almost like chatty. So, everyone and we have links for everything. Jodi. Of course, in the show notes and on the website and everywhere, it's just so much just a plethora of really fun things for you. Things to, like, spark your brain in so many different ways. So, okay, other fun tips.
Jodi Wellman [00:17:25] Other fun tips. Okay. Thank you, by the way, for saying that because there is a definite art and science to talking about death out of the way that makes you feel like it is that it is fun. So thank you.
Lauren Abrams [00:17:35] It's only in our society that it's not normalized. In other societies, it is so normalized.
Jodi Wellman [00:17:39] Right? I mean, I just don't use this to our advantage to poke fun at it. Another way that I recommend in addition to I think we kind of glossed over it a bit, was like, oh, the first step is to count how many Mondays you have left. Like, we can't move on. I don't think that for me that's foundational. It's only when you say, like, I know I have 1819 Mondays left on average, I hope to beat it, but I'm. I'm realistic. You might not see me tomorrow. You know, that is the thing that ends up making us go, oh, like, why am I putting this thing off? You know, why am I sweating the small stuff like, this is the thing that I want to fit into this time, and it helps you prioritize. So number one, I think that that's crucial for all of us. That's okay. Now another thing is, as you would know from reading the book, I look at life in a couple of dimensions. So there's the idea of widening our lives and deepening our lives. And I think that we make our lives wider when we add more vitality in. And that's the stuff that's like the pure pleasure, the fun, the experiences, the things we do, the roller coasters, the tasting menus, just the fun times, hobbies, you know? And then the deepening, as you might expect, is more about meaning. And then it's about adding in and being thoughtful about, like your purpose, having good connections and relationships with other people, maybe a sense of spirituality. It's the deeper stuff. For most people, I think that one of the required things is to diagnose the dead zones I call it. It's designed to be self-reflective, and it's part of the pre mortem in my book, where there are about 898 questions, which is like, let's look at your life, you know, where is it working for you? Okay, do more of that. And where do you feel flatlined? Because is it in the realm of vitality? Do you feel a little bit like, I need a little fun? And or is it more in the meaning where you're like, no, I'm having fun. I'm going to the cocktail bar, but like, I need it to feel substantive like I need more meaning in some way, shape or form. Many of us have an inkling in the different parts of our lives, which I really get nosy about. It's like thinking about, think about the domains of your life. Think about your health. What about your social life? What about your family interaction? What about your recreation and fun time? What about your career? What about your finances? Personal growth? You know, have you learned a lot lately? Especially if that matters to you. Some people don't care. Your physical environment. Some of us just really are like, I just need to know. My home is my sanctuary. Of all the parts and pieces of life, there's usually one little bubble. Like maybe there's like seven of those bubble up and that's fine. Just pick one first, but identify like. Is there an area that you might want to infuse a little more life? And all we can do is just do one thing at a time like we want to do it all or nothing, and I'm that way. Yeah, yeah, but you can't like, like.
Lauren Abrams [00:20:16] I was trying to, like, mock five or fuck it, you know, like, I like. No.
Jodi Wellman [00:20:21] That's a t-shirt. I got to make that my whole adage, like one small thing, like, if you do one small thing today in service of living life, we are. So say, maybe out of that little list I just railed off. Maybe you're like. Yeah, the health thing. I really want to get active again because my body feels like. It's like dying on the vine over here.
Lauren Abrams [00:20:39] Yeah, I must say, I need to get a house.
Jodi Wellman [00:20:43] That might be an example where it's okay. What could you do that you? What did you use to do when you were feeling more, more energetic? So number one is don't reinvent the wheel unless you're motivated to already. But like if you're stuck and you go, I don't know how to do well, wait a minute. Back when I was doing, I'm going to make this up like playing tennis, I felt so fun and it was like I felt active and I looked like the skirt I wore, like, then go do that again. But if you don't have an old thing or you want to try something new, we just have to commit and do one thing today. And what that usually looks like is going online and registering for something. I do this in a lot of workshops and often at the break, people will go and do something and they'll come back and be like, I registered for a golf lesson next Saturday. I'm so excited and nervous and like, everyone's excited because or maybe it's not active for them. Maybe it's that I registered for a pottery class and I'm so nervous and excited and like, making one small move, making a gesture to show yourself that you give a shit. And then I think that it's more than giving one. Should I always say you have to give two shits? Because giving a shit is about stopping and thinking about what your best life might look like. Like that takes time and effort to fathom. But then two shits is now I'm going to register and go, you know, like now I'm going to actually take one step into it and see what it feels like to, again, feel more alive, because I got to stress it like we are all just fabulous ticking time bombs. And I would hate the idea that any of us gets to the end and says, I really wanted to do this thing and I didn't. Or that I get to the end and I feel like I didn't participate enough. You know, like I wished I had gotten up off the couch more. That's usually my. My magnetically attracted to my couch,
Lauren Abrams [00:22:27] Well, there's the five regrets of the dying. That you didn't allow yourself to be happier. Or is it one of them?
Jodi Wellman [00:22:34] Yeah, that was the palliative care nurse.
Lauren Abrams [00:22:35] Yeah, the palliative care nurse. I mean, it was over 5000 patients. I think it was wishing you lived a life true to yourself instead of what somebody else wanted you to do. I just read this again, wishing you didn't work so hard. Yeah. Hello. So, are you, overachieving, burnt-out people listening and wishing that you stayed in touch with your friends is also one of them. So I love the fact that you said my old college roommate would love to hear.
Jodi Wellman [00:23:01] Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. I think the social part is an interesting one. Many people have found that the good old-fashioned plague, you know, derailed us from not only doing things that got us up and out and Adam but of course, the social side. And I'm noticing there's a big hangover that's happened because of it, where we, like, we adapt super fast in life and that is a good thing and that is a bad thing. So we end up just getting into this sort of smaller, narrower life and it becomes a bit of like, now we're in a routine which again, warning signs for autopilot. We just kind of do the same thing and it isn't as Y. Well, we don't go out as much anymore. And you know, that's fine if you don't want to. But if there's a part of you, it's feeling a little bit suspicious of yourself. And I encourage us to interrogate ourselves often and say, like, not in an obsessive way, like, could I be loving my life more because then you're going to get into a tailspin?
Lauren Abrams [00:23:53] Yeah, yeah.
Jodi Wellman [00:23:53] What about, like, when we know our lives will whisper at first like, I think I want more, and then it might start to poke from the inside out, and then it might start to jab you, and then it might show up in a lot of dysfunctional ways, you know, eating disorders, for one example. But all the ways that we're like, I want more. And I'm scared. Maybe it does acknowledge it, but it does take courage sometimes. I threw in a silly example as I could go about a pottery class. Do you know the number of people that I've worked with in groups, or even when I used to work individually with people that really want to do a thing, but they didn't want to register because they were afraid of looking like an idiot like everyone is going to look like you.
Lauren Abrams [00:24:31] I mean, anybody who starts anything that's an intro class. It's going to look like an idiot. But also, I keep thinking, when you were talking, I'm like, we're pack animals. We are not meant to isolate and all the isolation problems. And yet I work from home. I talk about this a lot. Who knew you could practice law at my podcast from home? Like everything is from home. And when people want to get together, I want to hike. I want to do something that's active because I sit all day and I can get very comfortable by myself. But we are, which it's when we're amongst a bunch of people. You just did a group thing with a bunch of people, and then when you're in that environment, whenever I do this, we're hugging each other around each other like, oh yeah, I love this. Yeah, you have to be in it. And you're like, I need this. This fills me up. But then when you're not around it, you're like, oh no, I'm comfortable like this and you forget.
Jodi Wellman [00:25:26] You do. Back to that idea about adaptation. We find ourselves and unless we are again are very unless you were you're working with a coach or you're just super in-tune. Most of us are not self-aware enough to check in regularly enough to go wait. If I call it, like, literally like taking your pulse. And of course, I need the metaphor because, like, sometimes there is no pulse or that's usually a little bit too late. But usually, it's like we like most of us, unfortunately, let it go a little too far before we over that, but before we kind of course correct. And I just think, let's not waste that precious time doing that. Let's be proactive and say, like my balance and my need for social needs or this. And I think that's part of the diagnosis because some people are more extroverted than others are introverted. Some people want more adventure than others. Some people want more learning than others. Some people, you know, again, want a quieter life and that fills them with joy. If it's really like I love tending to my garden, said one woman. And I want to read and I want to cook and make special chicken stews. And like for her, she loves doing that for her family. And that's her joy. Went to another person in the workshop. They're like, oh my God, blow my head off. Like, that's not the life I want. I'm like, great, go! Would you tell us about your life? No. Like I want to be planning the world trip, and I want to be, like, trying the new caviar at the newest. But I'm like, great. You do you. No matter what, though, but just do the thing rather than finding ourselves off the path and then waking up and going, whoa! Like, how did I let things go? We do let it go.
Lauren Abrams [00:26:51] Right? So what do you tell somebody who is not doing what it is they know they're called here to do, and they're afraid to take that leap?
Jodi Wellman [00:27:01] Yeah. The first step is, of course, asking questions. That's the old coaching me that can't do that. It's getting curious, you know, and I think really let's start with what's called appreciative inquiry. I don't know if you have heard of that before. It's based on the premise that we live in a world that our questions create. So if all we're asking ourselves are like, what's wrong or what's the problem? What can I fix? It's noble. I mean, don't fix problems, but we're going to kind of be living a life that's like in a bit of downer energy about problems versus like what's possible, what's when that was working well, what was happening? What let you up then? What is it, what do you have to gain from this? If you did take this risk moving forward, put it like, let's rig our own happiness. You know what I'm saying? Like, give us a fighting chance to love this and be like, what could we gain? Let's get excited by that. And now I'm going to be the first to admit all the research I've done, and it's just abundantly clear that that is not enough. So as much as I say like, let's use appreciative inquiry, let's talk about what's good. Let's try and let that be helium. Unfortunately, as humans, we do need a dot, a dash of pain in order to take action. And like you said, sometimes the universe gets you fired from your job. And that's the thing that helps you to figure out. Sometimes the universe slaps you with depression for a while, and that's the thing that helps you to move on. Back in my language, it's let's count how much time you have left. Let's count how many big vacations you have left, how many summers, how many more visits to your parents. Like, let's get you putting this into perspective because we often lose the perspective on our impermanence and it makes us take things for granted. It makes us just go on and live like it's just another summer. When I look at it like we are on the cusp of summer and this might be, I don't know. I'm not that morbid to say. This might be my last summer, but I don't really think that way. But like, how do we use this to heighten our sense of commitment to living, like, I, I want to make the most of this summer because as far as I know, I'm as able-bodied as I'll ever be. As I age, I'm only just going to. Things are only going to get rusty year right? So how do you just like then pick and choose like what would be something that might give me a shot at feeling alive, but feeling like if again, I want vitality or if I want meaning what that might be? And then it's up to us to slot that in. This is the not glamorous part we can fathom and we can have these ideas and say. I want to do this and acknowledge, I think, that the next step more to what you were just talking about is acknowledging. Also, let's talk about why it's scary and like what's the and then like always like what's the worst thing that can happen? Usually, that question is only mildly effective for us. You know, it's like but again, the thing that I found most effective is like, would you regret it on your deathbed? And how much time do you have?
Lauren Abrams [00:29:38] Yeah, that's a great question. That explains why your TED talk is like the title of your book. And would you regret it? I love it because it is well, it's not just me. I mean, I think I have a list. Adam Grant I know, I remember that was easy. He calls your book a breath of fresh air, making the most of our scarce time. I mean, Doctor Laurie Santos, you have quite an impressive list of who love your book. Wait, didn't Oprah like I remember seeing?
Jodi Wellman [00:30:11] Oh, you're like my parents.
Lauren Abrams [00:30:13] Like, I love that you're on Oprah's list.
Jodi Wellman [00:30:15] But yeah, one of my excerpts is in her Oprah Daily magazine. That was great.
Lauren Abrams [00:30:20] See, you can manifest anything, you guys. And I'm going to go from that to what is the hardest challenge that you've gone through and how did you get through it.
Jodi Wellman [00:30:33] You know, I'm kind of torn because I want to go in two directions. We've talked a little bit about, you know, the eating disorders was something that, would seem to be an obvious answer, but I think with the right help and care and the right timing in life, that something that, you know, the that getting the right support and feeling like you need bravery to do that, but that that felt like the prescription seemed to make sense. So that one to me, I'm going to acknowledge it as something that felt hard. But I'm also going to say maybe more specifically that I think applies to more of us. It's overcoming. Fear and I talk all about this stuff, living life boldly and committing and participating because I need help with this. And daily, like I count my Mondays every week. And I talk about it a lot. Now I get the the pleasure of getting to talk about a lot within this, because I love the idea of it, and I need it and want it like it. It's not enough to just say it once. It's that like even, for example, you know, pursuing some of the people that I did want to blurb the book, give an endorsement for the book, you got to be bold, you know, or making decisions like even going out and finding an agent to start to send a query letter to write the book. It's like, that's the stuff that my mom didn't do. Those bold steps that are like the literal. Wow, that's a metaphor. Like, do-or-die moments in your dreams. And she just chose to die in those moments, in those dreams. And I sound judgmental of her. And I love your recipes. But it's true. And those are the moments where we know, like, I want every person listening right now to stop and think because there's a thing you want to do. If it matters, you have feelings about it. If it matters, it's usually a cocktail of excitement and energy. But also, oh shit, some kind of fear that either might be crushing or just enough to distract you and oh, conveniently mean that I'll get to it next week. And that's the thing where I just want to grab you. And just so it's one part hug, one part shake and be like, ooh, let's just get on with it. So for me, it's the courage to do the thing, the big stuff, even the small stuff, and live like Seneca the philosopher said. Like it. Essentially it takes courage. Even the act of living takes courage. I know it sounds simple, but I also will challenge us. There's a reason we're on autopilot. There's a reason we take life for granted. And I think if we're willing to face facts, which is, darn it all, we're temporary. That sucks. And let's use that to our advantage.
Lauren Abrams [00:33:06] Yeah, I just love that. Before, when you're talking about the questions to ask yourself and it kind of ties into like walking through your fears, whatever we focus on grows. Just focusing on the good and what we want instead of what could happen and what could go wrong. It's the same as the questions I think we ask ourselves. I really love the way you put that. And, like, that's pretty amazing. I just, I really love the way you couch and phrase things, and your verbiage, which is why you guys all love the book. Are there any questions I didn't ask you that we're going to be done, and you're gonna be like, Lauren didn't ask me this.
Jodi Wellman [00:33:45] Darn it yeah. No. You're so fabulously thoughtful of all these things. Nothing outstanding.
Lauren Abrams [00:33:53] So this is so good guys. All of Jodi's, like I said, all of our links. She has quizzes. She has amazing questions. But I have found she has 48 life-jotting questions on our 4000 Mondays website. And again, I have links for all of this on the website and below in the show notes. Thank you so much for being a guest today on 52 weeks of Hope.
Jodi Wellman [00:34:14] Oh, thank you so much, Lauren, for having me here. Time well spent.